I think that this is a dreaded question for many programmers and others in fields with a scientific or mathematical bent. How do you explain the full extent of what it is that you do and why it’s valuable without being dismissed as just another creepy nerd? How do you fight the stereotype of unkempt basement-dwellers living with their parents, spending most of their time on the Internet because they’re too socially awkward to interact with people in other settings?
About a week ago there was a discussion about this on programming Reddit. The original poster, a programmer, feels a sense of inferiority because while others can succinctly explain the “awesome” in what they’re doing, he cannot. I sympathize with this sentiment. I love what I do but how do I transfer that passion without drowning the other person in the technical details? It feels like without the finer, technical details, my job description becomes distilled to “I make websites.”
Really? That’s it? That’s what I do for a living?
But is the problem really that what we’re doing isn’t interesting to the layperson? Web developers built Google, Facebook, MySpace, Wikipedia, and many more technologies that people use every day. We are building cool web applications that, while they might not gain the same degree of popularity or critical mass, can potentially provide just as much value. If we didn’t think that web development was an awesome career, a lot of us probably wouldn’t be doing it.
(And by the way, if you’re making money doing something you have absolutely no passion for, you might want to try and fix that. Just sayin’.)
So why do we have difficulty getting people to identify with this? Perhaps this comment from the Programming Reddit discussion might shed some light on the topic (emphasis mine):
Obnoxious braying girl: (To me and a friend) Oh, i bet i can guess what you do! go on, let me! (Obnoxious braying girl makes a few guesses about my friend’s job, eventually works out he does some sort of admin thing in publishing, polite words exchanged about this field) Obnoxious braying girl: (to me) Hmm.. you’re… a graphic designer? Me: hah! god no OBG: A journalist? Me: Well, that does sound like fun, but no (back and forth for a bit until she eventually asks me what i do Me: (in jokey, self deprecating tone) – I’m a massive nerd, basically – I program computers and make websites for people OBG: oh, right… (she stares down into her drink) Me: (trying to salvage this conversation) – so, and what do you do? OBG: Oh, i work at a corporate events company! it’s really exciting, basically we…. Cue 15 minutes of skull-numbingly boring monologue about basically being a travel-agent for corporations. It puzzles me though – why is anyone who doesn’t work with computers given licence to go on and on about their job (Despite the fact that asking people about work is basically a social nicety and not interesting at all to anyone socially), wheras anyone whose interests (whether work based or not) include anything technology or science-based are automatically percieved as boring socially-inept people who can’t talk about anything else? Fuck that shit – next time i’m introduced to someone I’m going straight into explaining recursion.
There are a few things that one could criticize here but the point I’ve decided to focus on here is the blatant self-deprecation. If you read the rest of the comments in the discussion, you might notice, like I have, that this is actually surprisingly common — it’s like many of us have been conditioned to believe that what we do is simply not interesting to a vast majority of people, so we might as well just say “I do computer stuff” and get it over with.
Alun Anderson, Editor-in-Chief of New Scientist magazine, would beg to differ (emphasis mine again):
Science writing used to be slightly apologetic: [puts on whiny voice] “this is all going to be terribly difficult, but I’ll try and make it easy for you”. Like they’ve sugar coated something you don’t really want to take. Our goal was to really change that – change the people and the ideas – to be self-confident. Science often suffers from this sort of cringe factor – “I’m a boring scientist, you probably don’t want to talk to me”. My policy was if you’re talking to someone else the approach is: “what’s happening in science is the most interesting thing in the world, and if you don’t agree with me just fuck off, because I’m not interested in talking to you”. You had to have that kind of attitude. That tended to be the kind of attitude of people in the arts: [in snooty voice – think Brian Sewell] “Of course I am doing something interesting”, so I took the same attitude. If you’re not interested, I don’t want to explain to you – you’re just a fucking idiot, so get out of my way! And it worked, because if you write like, “I’m really interested in this, it’s not only interesting its really important. If you can’t see this, you’re probably a moron!” It works. It has to be true to a degree. Otherwise it’s just piped bullshit, or triumphalism or something. The thing is, it is really interesting and important. People from the sciences do often have massive inferiority complexes.
I believe that what I do is interesting, important, and valuable. If I didn’t, I’d be doing something else. And so, I will endeavour to find a way to convey that value and importance and when someone asks me what I do, that is how I will answer.
Anyone who absolutely can’t identify with my passion for what I do is probably somebody I really wouldn’t like anyway.
I’ve always wondered about this phenomenon myself, you have managed to put it into words. Good article!
Fuck yeah. I agree.
I take a different tact when telling people what I do, something like “I am a software developer building a system for [Company X] to [some description that makes sense to listener]”.
Definitely in keeping with the story of the stonemasons and the cathedral that has been told for hundreds of years.
A traveler came upon a group of three hard-at-work stonemasons, and asked each in turn what he was doing.
The first said, “I am sanding down this block of marble.”
The second said, “I am preparing a foundation.”
The third said, “I am building a cathedral.”
@Douglas: I think that it is as much a matter of perspective as it is of the words that you say. If you don’t truly believe in what you’re saying — even if only for the moment that you’re saying it — then no words, no matter how carefully crafted, will convey confidence. I think that confidence is very much a key point here; we need to get away from this notion that we are intrinsically handicapped in social situations. We’re not.
Tech writers (such as myself) struggle with this issue too.
When people find out you’re a programmer, do you they ever tell you about their frustrations with software? I occasionally get to hear about people’s troubles with user manuals once they find out what I do.
@Milan: It happens occasionally but not often enough to become annoying. Actually, I sometimes welcome it because it gives me insight into how that person interacts with software. I’ll think about what that person has said the next time I’m implementing similar functionality or UI myself. Also, I think that if you sympathize with the troubles they are having, you can establish good rapport. Almost nothing is more important in a conversation or interaction with another person than good rapport.
I am a little bit observant, and in some cases I notice that people are dissapointed when talking to somebody like us, the nerds! 1) We do something ‘boring’ in their opinion; 2) We do something beyond their comprehension, thus that’s intimidating…
For case 1) Having an nerd-attitude is healthy. Yeah, what I do (like ‘artists’) is cool/important/relevant, and if you think is boring, well GTFO…. However, my experience is that most of the time is case 2… Most people feel intimidated by the ‘potential Bill Gates’ in front of them in some way or another… Case in point with the OBG mentioned in the article, if you mention you work on nerdy stuff for a living, and she stares down at her drink, she’s probably thinking “He’s one of those smart guys… How an average girl would deal a conversation in this situation?” and most likely she’ll try to move away to somebody more on her brain range… It’s important to learn about about something called “empathy” (difficult for some people with Asperger’s I know) that can give you clues about what kind of reaction the person in question interacting with you is having…
I’ve seen nerds having problems explaining what they do (myself included), learn how to make up your thing so it actually sounds interesting, while at the same is not too much show off…
It’s true that I haven’t considered the case of the other person actually being intimidated by how awesome the stuff that you do for a living is. =)
Regarding the OBG and the nerd she was talking with: he didn’t even try. All he said was “I’m a massive nerd, basically – I program computers and make websites for people.” As well as being self-deprecating, he also didn’t seem to care at all about what she was saying. I’m not dismissing your point that it is important to empathize with the other person and at least attempt to make your conversation relevant to him or her. I also agree with your point that being condescending won’t get you anywhere either.
But in any case, somebody who dismisses what you do and your passion for it, whether that’s because they think it’s boring or because they’re intimidated by it — presuming you weren’t being condescending about it, that is — is probably somebody you couldn’t be friends with anyway. Sometimes you just have to accept that you and the other person are fundamentally incompatible and move on.
Just about every source of advice about conversation skills repeats this one very important rule: be genuinely interested in the other person. Being completely self-centered won’t get you very far with people. It’s hard to make a meaningful connection when you’re not even truly paying attention to the other person because you are too consumed with yourself.
In an average 24 hours, i spend 14 hours in front of a computer. I program for living, i program for fun, i do it to flaunt and sometimes i do to remind myself that i suck at it. Yeah, there are different aspects. Most of the time a layman asks me about my job, i say “Oh i am just another software engineer and i help people perform jobs that will be hell lot of difficult doing by themselves, and i make life easy for you guys to live”. This makes me feel good. But then i look at other engineers – the ones who do something “real”. The Google guys, the Facebook guys and the twitter guys maybe. And upon looking at them, i see that my most of my office time goes in stupid documentation, or trying to convince my boss about something new. And i feel bad about it. The problem with big service based IT firms is – everything is ready-made, all you need to do is a cleaver copy paste. The problem with small IT firms is – they do not pay you good. The problem with Google is i am not smart enough for them (is that a problem with them?).
Most of the times i am confused with programming as a career. But i have an answer for “What do you do”, and that makes me feel good.
I find this diverts the conversation effectively:
“I sit in my cabin in the woods with my typewriter, working on my Manifesto.”
In other words…make polite fun of the question by implying something wrong, but
not too far from the truth, such as the above. :-)
Which begs a whole other thread of conversation: Were the Internet-is-a-Bulletin-Board
already mature in the late ’80s and early ’90s, would the Unabomber still have
done what he did? If you argue that his frustration was not getting his crazy rants
across to people, maybe a vent such as the ‘net would have placated him??
I spin electrons into a shimmering digital tapestry of logic.
I build stories of circumstances and choreograph virtual states.
I contrast cohesion and coupling against a binary backdrop.
I weave algorithms into patterns of recursive fancy.
I am a programmer, I am an artist. I create.
So… What do you do?
I program/maintain the corporate internet/intranet sites plus manage/update and the UCM for a company of >5000 people… with 10+ billion work in hand… Nothing much…
Thinking about it now, I believe there are two reasons I downplay it.
1) Interest level. Mine is high. Yours is low. Never the twain shall meet.
2) To avoid the inevitable, “Oh, you know computers. Can you fix my computer/phone/fax/modem/mouse/printer…”
Personally, I’m in it for the cocaine & groupies.
Personally, I’m in it for the marijuana and cookies
I don’t know about any of you guys, but when I’m layed with any kind of question like that people will respond better to ” Cowboy.” Then leave it at that.
I have a friend who, when asked what he does for a living asks “What do you know about database systems?”, and depending on their response, he says either “I’m an oracle dba” or “I play video games for a living”.
I think programmers are in a very unique profession where they can (sometimes single handedly) build websites/applications that will be used by hundreds of thousands of people.
“Were the Internet-is-a-Bulletin-Board already mature in the late ’80s and early ’90s, would the Unabomber still have done what he did? If you argue that his frustration was not getting his crazy rants across to people, maybe a vent such as the ‘net would have placated him??”
The uni bomber hated technology and was trying to kill people to stop its progress. He deliberately used a typewriter, it wasn’t a lack of a pc or internet leaving no option – the net would have infuriated him.
I solve problems and I learn things quickly. This is different than “fixing things” though I’m good at that as well. Seriously, folks. Any of us can take our critical thinking skills and do almost anything we want. I choose to tinker with security (infosec by day, physical security as well, for hobby) but I could pick up web design, motorcycle repair, or almost anything else if I wanted to.
For the time being, I do info-sec in the financial industry. That means I have bursts of very cool projects and spans of rather boring things like audits and hashing out policy. I usually sum it up as “I help keep bad guys out of mutual fund accounts” – THAT usually leads to some interesting discussion. It’s short, simple, accurate and it has a hook.
Thanks for the great post!
When someone ask me what do I do, I answer: ‘Has you ever seen “E.R.”, well, I do the same thing, but with computers. I’m a sysadmin’
Article is right. I do quantum optics, and build quantum computers. I talk about it at parties, and in bars. Why? Because its fucking awesome! Its rocks, and so do I. And yes, it gets the chicks
You need to read Neil Strauss’ The Game, which deals with the exact phenomenon you’re describing.
One later section even says, that hordes of computer programmers eventually show up to learn the “Mystery Method” and what not. Although I’d hardly advocate all of the book’s methods, they nonetheless give you a better framework for dealing with the “What do you do?” question.
I’ve actually read that book. I thought it was a really interesting read. I like that it’s less about “pickup” itself and more about how practicing it affected him and the people around him.
Also, recently there was a geek who claimed that he was now much better at getting with the ladies on Reddit. He was also recommending the “Mystery Method”. Makes me think, but I don’t really want to get into practicing “game”.
If Neil’s account is any indication, it doesn’t seem like a good path. He remarks near the end of the book that while practicing “game” had gotten him and his friends in bed with many women, it didn’t really help with the thing that many people had gotten into the scene for in the first place: finding a lasting, intimate relationship.
being a computer programmer myself makes me very proud of my job::’
my sister is a computer programmer and she earns lots of buxx from it’~.
my father is a computer programmer for Alwill Software and it is a high paying job’,~